Blunt Voice from Turkey

The key Turkish voice in the Geneva peace talks that collapsed last week was that of Foreign Minister Turan Guenes, 53, a wily, tough bargainer with the roughhewn features of an Anatolian peasant. Before returning to Ankara, Guenes received TIME'S Robert Kroon for a poolside interview at the Turkish diplomatic mission in Geneva and gave his version of why the peace talks went sour.

Why didn't you give the Greeks and Greek Cypriots the 36-hour recess they requested before ending the talks?

This was just a pretext of [British Foreign Secretary James] Callaghan's to gain time. On the surface the argument that [Greek Foreign Minister George] Mavros and [Greek Cypriot Acting President Glafcos] Clerides had to consult their governments looked valid. But they had direct telephone lines with their capitals, just like the Turks, and they could have consulted their people by phone. All we wanted was separate geographical zones for the two Cypriot communities. Mavros and Clerides wanted to maintain the status quo. If we had accepted the delay they would have come back with negative replies anyway.

Callaghan has said the two Cypriot communities could solve their own problems, if the Turkish army would let them.

It's not the Cypriots who decide the fate of Cyprus. It's the Turks and the Greeks, and all the rest is blah-blah. [Greek Cypriot deposed President] Makarios is still around, and he could have blocked a deal between Clerides and [Turkish Cypriot Leader Rauf] Denktas, and we would be back where we started. Clerides and Denktas have been talking for six years, and Makarios always blocked any plan for the advancement of the Turkish Cypriot community.

The Turks were kept in their place as second-rate citizens. If a Turkish Cypriot wanted to travel abroad, he had a hard time getting a passport from the Makarios administration, unless he wanted to emigrate to Australia. Then they were delighted to give him a passport and pay for his fare--one way. Turkish Cypriot farmers received less for their produce than Greek Cypriots. There are hundreds of other examples of discrimination. The only solution is to give Turkish Cypriots a fair share of the island. But here in Geneva Mavros and Clerides did not move an inch on this point of principle.

What do you consider a fair share?

That is negotiable. Callaghan came to me and said, "Do you really want 34% of Cyprus for 18% of the population?" I replied, "Well, we might even settle for 40%," but he did not appreciate the joke. I can assure you we will not occupy all of Cyprus and certainly not the British sovereign bases. I don't agree that 30% or 40% is all that unreasonable. After all, Turkish Cypriots are mostly farmers, and farmers need land. Our army will see to it that they get it.

Doesn't your action undermine NATO?

The Greek withdrawal from NATO was an act of emotional exaggeration. Everybody is blaming us because the Greeks are now the Western world's darling underdogs. But once this thing is settled, I am sure they will return to the NATO alliance. We're getting a little tired of Mr. Callaghan's argument that we are undermining Greece's newborn democracy. [Turkish Premier Buelent] Ecevit may also have some problems at home, for our military is strong as well.

Will there be a new Geneva peace conference?

Maybe, I don't know. We have to settle this affair first. Nobody cares to remember how many efforts we have made to sanitize the Cyprus situation. As soon as the new [Greek government of Constantine] Caramanlis signed the Declaration of Geneva after the first phase of the peace conference, they welshed on it.

But they did start evacuating Turkish enclaves.

Only for one day. They never gave an inch. Look, we want to live in peace and friendship with Greece. We won't chase Greek Cypriots out of the new Turkish zones, and we hope that Turks can continue to live in the Greek-Cypriot zone. In its new federative form, Cyprus can remain independent. We don't want double enosis [union with Greece and Turkey]. But enosis with Greece is out as well.

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