An Interview with the Shah
"We can easily build a factory, but how do you educate politicians?"
Scarcely 24 hours after he had declared martial law, the Shah of Iran described the problems of his troubled country to TIME Diplomatic Correspondent Strobe Talbott, Cairo Correspondent Dean Brelis and Tehran Reporter Parviz Raein. As he began this extraordinary interview in his private office at Saadabad Palace, the Shah was plainly an immensely saddened man. It showed in his face, which was grim and gaunt, and in his eyes, which were tired and melancholy. Even his dress, so often elegant, was somber. He wore a dark, formal suit, an unadorned white shirt and a narrow, conservative tie. There was little life and much caution in his voice. He answered questions after long and painful pauses. A few paces behind him stood a security man. Outside, there were tanks around the grounds--the first time in 25 years that tanks have been seen at the palace. Highlights from the 90-minute interview.
On the troubles of the past week and the imposition of martial law. The demonstrators defied the law. They were trying to demonstrate their strength and challenge the authority of the state. The state first tried to use minimum force. After due consideration, the government saw no other way but to enforce martial law. The instigators would stop at nothing to undermine the state.
On the future policy of the government. It is certain that the main program, which is the liberalization and democratization of the country and then real, free elections, will continue. Martial law is for six months, and it will end before the elections start. In the meantime, all aspects of freedom, free speech and everything, will be absolutely carried out. But democracy will take place in the parliament, as in any civilized country.
On whether it was a mistake to emphasize economic development over the years at the expense of developing sound political institutions. Maybe. I think that is true. We can easily build a factory, but how do you educate politicians? In what period of time can you educate politicians? What we are sure of now is that something was wrong. Something, somewhere, or many things, many places, were wrong. Otherwise you wouldn't have this unnatural situation where per capita income rose from $160 to $2,300 [at the same time as all the political unrest].
On whether the reforms can continue despite the martial law. We have not stopped the clock. We will not go back. This should give the government enough time to carry out the reforms. When I say it [that he is going through with the democratization and the elections], people should believe it. I have no other interest than that. Why should I care who comes into the parliament? I only care that the people be represented.
On why he feels he cannot permit the legalization of the Tudeh, or Communist, Party. This question should be related to our geographic position. We have to ask ourselves whether our geographic position will permit this or that [party or political organization. While the Shah is reluctant to spell out what he means on the record, interviews in Tehran make clear that he is concerned that an aboveground Tudeh would serve as a Trojan horse for the Soviet Union, and the Shah is reliably reported to have worried privately that in some future political crisis, legalized Iranian Communists might seek and get the "fraternal assistance" of the Soviet Union, the way Alexander Dubcek's political enemies did in Czechoslovakia in 1968].
On the nature of his opposition and the link between the left and the conservative clergy. In the old days it was hard to believe that a Catholic priest could become a Communist, but then it could happen that a Communist would get an order to go and become a Catholic.
On the widespread complaint that he has abandoned Islam and failed as his countrymen's defender of the faith. That charge is not right. In so many of my decisions, writings and actions I have shown my commitment to my religion. First, there are the books I have written. Second, there are all the holy places I have restored. Third, there are the pilgrimages I have made. And there's also what I say.
On his dejection. Obviously any problem facing my country affects me. I cannot dissociate myself.
On whether this is his gravest hour. (With a grim smile) We have had many hours, including some grave ones.
On the effect of the Carter human rights policy on Iran. Well, when we started to liberalize two years ago, it was with the perfect understanding and knowledge that the democratic way will be our way in the future. Everything that was done was to secure our democratic future. And that was two years ago [he means to emphasize that he initiated the liberalization before the Carter Administration came into office].
On whether the Carter human rights campaign has emboldened his opponents. Well, maybe you should ask them.
On the investigation into the Abadan fire. We have two people [suspects]. One was arrested in Iraq and handed over to us. But the investigation is progressing very slowly. It will take time and patience, because we are not using any methods; you know, it's been a long time since we stopped torture. So it takes a very long time.
On how the first night of curfew [Friday] went. It was calm. But we must expect acts of sabotage and eventually terror. The reason is that the way things were going before [martial law], they [his opponents] didn't have to resort to that. They could have taken over the country--and I don't mean slowly. But if that is not possible for them, then they will resort to certain acts of sabotage and arson.
On whether there is a resurgence of politically active Islamic conservatism throughout the Muslim world, and whether because of his forced-march modernization policies, he has been caught on the cutting edge of the resistance. Yes, and I don't mind that. I personally believe that Islam is not opposed to progress. In a normal atmosphere, faith is needed by a society and adds to its stability and its strength. I'm talking about Islam--and not political slogans.
On his vision of Iran's future. We shall do our duty, I mean our duty to remain an independent country. And I think that our fate will have a great influence on the fate of the democratic, non-Communist countries.
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