"We Are Socialist'"

The living room of Prime Minister-designate Robert Mugabe's new home in suburban Salisbury is filled with the furnishings of its former owner, a white businessman. A nondrinker, Mugabe is oblivious to his surroundings, which incongruously include a massive cocktail bar. Instead, his attention is consumed with his dream for a socialist Zimbabwe. In the only interview he has given to an American publication since his election, Mugabe discussed his plans for the future of his country with TIME Johannesburg Bureau Chief William Me Whirter. The meeting was interrupted just once, when a diplomatic emissary entered the room to deliver a personal letter from President Carter. Excerpts from the interview:

On socialism: We are socialist. We will espouse socialist principles, but our principles must take cognizance of the realities of our country--the history, traditions and particular circumstances in which we find ourselves. The country is based on free enterprise and is therefore capitalistic. We have to accept that we will not bring about an immediate disruption of the economy; we can work in gradual phases until we get to our goal. In the civil service, of course, racialism will have to go. But it would be a very foolish man who would immediately take over and overthrow the system.

On democracy: We want people to participate in shaping their own Lives at various levels, especially in the countryside. The workers there will be established into various committees which have a management role. That's what we envisage. I refuse to borrow political models. The principles--yes, the principles that people must finally be their own masters, share the ownership of their resources, peasants being well organized into collective units... These are principles from the experiences of others, like China, Yugoslavia, Rumania. I don't want regimentation. I just wouldn't like that I feel revulsed by dictatorship personally, whether it is done by individuals or by states. People have got to have the democratic right to make their decisions even if they don't want to be collectivized.

On Marxism: There are certain principles we have that derive from Marxism. But others derive from our own traditions, communal land ownership, for example. The Marx ists believe in it, but I don't think the Nigerians, who have nationalized their land, are Marxist in any way.

On the constitution: We are prepared to work under a parliamentary democracy, as accepted by us in the Lancaster House Agreement. Even though we have the power with the Patriotic Front coalition, I don't think we would want to make any major amendments. I think we want to try the constitution as it exists and see how it works. True, we had our reservations about certain clauses, but it is only fair that we give the constitution a fair trial.

On martial law: Curfews must go; they are unnecessary now. The war has come to an end. We are a country at peace. We don't need martial law. We don't need unnecessary poli tical arrests. Those who have been arrested must now be released. We are beginning a completely new chapter with the hope that there will not be any victimization of anybody for political reasons. We will allow as much freedom of political organization as possible. Why shouldn't opposition parties continue to campaign as they campaigned during the elections?

On disarming the whites: There must be disarmament of everybody, not only the whites. There are many guns around, and we want to remove them. We want this to be achieved in as short a period as possible. The people now have the power, so I don't see any reason why they should have these individual firearms. If we want them to be armed, we will arm them properly.

On South Africa: What the blacks in South Africa decide to do is entirely their own affair. If they decide to wage an armed struggle, we wish them well. It's not our business either to send our men there with arms to fight on the side of the Liberators, or to move directly in some other form to support that armed struggle. We can denounce apartheid in the forums of the United Nations and the nonaligned movement, but we wouldn't regard it as our direct responsibility to overthrow the South African government. South Africa is a different proposition from Rhodesia, where a group of settlers revolted against their queen and then also revolted against the general will of the people. South Africa consolidated itself on the basis of an independence it was granted [by Britain] in 1910. What is required now is not to question the right of independence of South Africa, but the system that is responsible for the oppression going on down there. South Africa is not a colonial problem like ours.

This file is automatically generated by a robot program, so viewer discretion is required.