Mandela and De Klerk Speak Out

By F.W. De Klerk

F.W. DE KLERK

Q. The announcement of the election suggests the tide of history is running against you and the National Party.

A. No, not at all. We've been in the lead of this process all the time. What is happening is exactly what we envisaged should happen, as the result of our initiatives. We see a major role for ourselves in the future; we are not liquidating as a political force. The National Party opened its membership to all South Africans a few years ago, and we should no longer be regarded as a party representative of only white South Africans.

Q. After next April you don't expect to be State President?

A. Being State President isn't important. There is already a convergence of opinion that for a period of five years we need a government of national unity, with a form of power sharing among the parties who attain a reasonable | percentage of the total vote. There is no doubt that we will be one of the major players.

Q. Is it your bottom line that there must be entrenched power sharing at the Executive level in the final constitution?

A. No. We asked for power sharing, and we will get it in the transitional period in a government of national unity. We believe it would be necessary to have a form of power sharing also in terms of a final constitution, but we have a totally open mind as to how that should be structured. I do not think a permanent form of enforced coalition can be written into a final constitution. But we need more than five years to ensure that the various components of our community will all feel secure and that they need not fear suppression or the misuse of power. We must ensure that there will never be domination again in South Africa. I'm not talking about minority vetoes but about preventing the misuse of power to the detriment of minorities.

Q. So you're not demanding a minority veto?

A. We never stood for a minority veto. To oversimplify it, what we think is that if you get 51% of the vote, you don't get 100% of the power: you get 51% of the power.

Q. It sounds like you're trying to take the prize away from the winner.

A. Well, in the U.S. they found ways and means of limiting the power of the Executive to such an extent that the presidency is quite circumscribed. What I am pleading for is that we must move away from the winner-take-all system that we inherited from Great Britain. It works in homogeneous societies, but it is not the right system for a big country with vast regional interests and many language and cultural groups. It is not a question of taking the prize away, but of ensuring that a government won't be able to do again what the National Party did with absolute power, merely because it had a majority.

Q. Do you ever worry that you're the South African Gorbachev and that the winds you unleash will blow you aside?

A. No, I don't think that is a true comparison. I'm not changing the very essence of a philosophy; I'm broadening democracy. It is not as if we are moving from the dark ages where there was no form of democracy suddenly into a new system. I'm not moving from communism to free-market enterprise. We have a basically sound economy. South Africans have been prepared for the final process of reconciling with each other, of becoming part of one entity and one nation, over a long period.

+ Q. What reason is there to fear an A.N.C. government?

A. I think its alliance with the South African Communist Party is one of the main stumbling blocks in the hearts and minds of the overwhelming majority of South Africans. As the A.N.C. now is, if they were to get absolute power, I think people would have to fear them because they have wild elements in their ranks.

Q. Are you confident Mandela is up to being South Africa's leader?

A. I really don't want to discuss my opponents and interlocutors. I'll be fighting an election against him. But I don't fight on an ad hominem basis. I have respect for him. He is highly intelligent. He has a strong personality. We get along well together as opponents, and we find it possible to put our differences aside to try to create the circumstances which can bring peace to our country. There's a mutual acceptance of each other's integrity.

Q. Are whites afraid of the prospect of a black President?

A. I won a referendum among whites with more than a two-thirds majority, and they had a very clear picture of the ultimate goal we had in mind. So I think the shock of the change away from the old to the new system has already been accommodated by most whites.

Q. Do you expect international economic or political help now?

A. The sooner the few remaining sanctions are lifted, the sooner we will be able to address the heartrending problems many of our people have. South Africa's future lies in Africa, and the developed world cannot sit by and see a continent go to pieces. South Africa can play an extremely constructive role as a partner with the international community in addressing the problems of Africa.

Q. How will you deal with people's high expectations?

A. I think it is one of the biggest challenges we face. I'm glad to see the A.N.C. leadership is beginning to realize this too and is publicly starting to admonish their crowds and cool down the expectations. But no one will be able to do it on his own. How we fight the election campaign is going to be very important: we must start to defuse unduly high expectations. I also think our economy is poised for a good recovery that could have a fairly substantial effect within a short period.

Q. What role might you play in the new government?

A. I think I'll be part of the top management of the country, playing a crucial and leading role in stabilizing our country, in the reconciliation / process, in interacting with the international community.

Q. Is the April election going to be the biggest fight of your political life?

A. No. At the moment my party has lost a lot of support, but not because people have deserted us and have joined other parties. There's a lot of uncertainty, a lot of apprehension -- the violence coupled with the fact that we haven't reached a final agreement so that people can draw conclusions about the future. Once we have those agreements, we will get a more clear-cut position of the political parties. Then I will attain very strong support from all sections of our community because there is a very strong belief that moderate leadership is essential for the future.